The Roberts Interview—Ahead of the Graphisoft 2022 Release Event

IN MAY, I FOUND MYSELF IN HUNGARY on vacation and had a chance to visit American Huw Roberts, CEO of Graphisoft. We did a brief tour of the Graphisoft buildings, and Roberts explained that most employees were still working from home.

I had about an hour and a half to sit down and talk to Roberts about the upcoming Graphisoft 40th anniversary celebration planned for mid-July. In his role as CEO for nearly three and a half years now, I also wanted to cover other broader topics—knowing full well that details of the upcoming Archicad 26 were not going to be on the table before the July event.

 

 

 

 

In the following four-part interview, Roberts and I discuss topics such as the DDS merger with Graphisoft, OpenBIM versus closedBIM, global competition with Revit, the Nemetschek Group, and possible synergies, BIMcloud and BIMx, and thoughts on the productivity paradox in AEC.

Roberts, never without an astute quote from the past, provides insightful thoughts about these items and more.

Interview Part 1

(Anthony Frausto-Robledo) Can you tell me a bit about what will happen in Budapest in July at Graphisoft? And as you might expect, I am clearly inclined to learn about your Apple Silicon plans.

(Huw Roberts) This is our 40th anniversary year as a company, and we have an exciting set of announcements and events planned for you all. As for the products and the technical items, and the new features and capabilities, we will share all of that with you in July.

We will also have a session with our head of R&D talking about how we are “retooling our factory”. Just like Apple and the software industry are constantly updating and need to do those sorts of things, so do we – both to stay in sync and to deliver our own innovations. Zsolt Kerecsen will talk about what we are doing with our code base, cloud services, APIs, and other integrations.

MORE: 2022 Graphisoft Launch Event — Learn More

As for Apple Silicon? We believe in the famous Wayne Gretzky quote—skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been. So, we need to know strategies from the Apples and Microsofts of the world, and we have exceptionally good relationships there, so we don’t get surprises and can stay ahead of what’s coming next.

It’s important that we don’t get too focused on the advantages of those platforms in themselves; we have to stay focused on leveraging the benefits of our ecosystem. That is fundamentally our platform.

For example, we consider BIMcloud and BIMx and how they provide services to the tools you are using locally—so that they can deliver capabilities and convenience to our users.

So, I take it the cloud is now the heart of your ecosystem? It connects everything.

Yes, we see great benefits from harnessing the cloud in our ecosystems, really our users’ ecosystems. Cloud technology is an important enabler for collaboration and provides new capabilities for sure. But we recognize there will always be many reasons why people may not be connected to the cloud or will not want to rely on the cloud and we intend to serve them well also.

And Archicad?

We do not expect to transform Archicad into a cloud application. Again, there is no added value to the customer for doing that. But for collaboration, BIMx can share models and information with a broader audience who are not BIM authors…from a browser, anywhere. And through BIMcloud we can offer all sorts of capabilities that extend Archicad for both teams and individual users. Using the cloud for what the cloud is good at as an extension of the devices for what the devices are good at is fundamentally our strategy.

Part 1 Commentary

The strategy of emphasizing the unique strengths of technologies, devices, and operating systems in a balanced way such that the ecosystem is most substantial is trumping alternative strategies that may emphasize the absolute capabilities of any one technology, device, or operating system.

While it is common for executives to share more details off the record, and I will delve into further Apple Silicon items further down the article, the important take-away from my visit with Roberts is how Graphisoft is thinking more about the strength of its ecosystem rather than any one product.

 

Interview Part 2

(AFR) When the news broke about the Graphisoft merger with DDS, I couldn’t help but think about integrated MEP in Archicad and that this merger was some kind of admission that there are indeed advantages in file-level integration.

That is an aspect of it, but we have a slightly different approach to it.

Because you are still believers of OpenBIM?

We are still believers of OpenBIM.

What sounds like competing ideas are both essential truths to us. So, one is that we fundamentally believe in OpenBIM. The data belongs to the customer, and it needs to be nimble and connected to all these other tools and systems. On the other hand, we recognize that there are aspects of workflows and design, engineering, or documentation processes where a really tight real-time integration is the best move.

Let’s step back a bit because you first introduced a new type of integration that was near real-time and was not a closed-BIM type of file-level integration.

So, in Archicad 24, we launched “integrated design” with structural. And that has been a great proving ground for our ideas. We have both Open BIM IFC connectivity on the structural engineering side and our SAF file-type analytical to BIM model connection technology. More than fifteen structural engineering and analysis vendors now support it.

MORE: Nemetschek Integrated Design—A Paradigm Shift for AECO

We think of it [SAF type] as our integrated design technology. It is an immediate “fast-cycle time” sharing mode based on shared open standards instead of file types. So how can that apply to the rest of the engineering disciplines?

We want to support both worlds in our world. We think the Open BIM connectivity is for the broad connectivity to other ecosystems and tools, which will be, in our view, the traditional way. And this will be highly valuable, in fact essential, for the foreseeable future.  And this fast-cycle integrated design approach complements that.

So, there will be a “new way” for integration aimed at the other disciplines that are a fast-cycle time sharing mode similar to SAF? The message is it will be more deeply integrated than traditional IFC. Do I have that right?

Exactly, but both – full Open BIM and tightly integrated design. And our roadmap is something we will be sharing at our event in July.

Are we talking about Graphisoft rebranding the DDScad technology and products?

We are not talking about anything like that now. And while we are integrating technologies from both directions, the product line is still called DDScad. The company has become part of Graphisoft.

Part 2 Commentary

The fast-cycle time data sharing and integration between Archicad and structural engineering tools are based on an open technology called SAF that Graphisoft has created in conjunction with Nemetschek. Showcased at the AIA Las Vegas show in 2019, it works brilliantly if an architect is fortunate to have an engineer working with one of the software packages that support it.

The DDScad fast-cycle time integration will evolve in stages, Roberts shared with me. And that is all we can share now with readers, who can tune into our event coverage in Budapest in mid-July to learn the whole story.

 

next page: Part 3 and Part 4 dive into competition with Revit, Open Letter, Nemetschek Group CDE questions, and industry economics

Interview Part 3

So, the size of your company now is more extensive than I imagined. Yet, in the United States, it seems that your chief competitor, Autodesk Revit, dominates the market.

I can share with you that the United States is one of our fastest-growing markets and we are fully committed to supporting the Architectural Design business there.

How do you see yourself competing with Revit in the United States?

Autodesk is a strong business, and especially in the United States.  But we are very excited at the fast growth and accelerating success we are seeing there now.  It seems that many architects appreciate our continued improvement in our products, the way our products really do align with how designers want to work, the focus we have on serving our customers well and adding value, and maybe even our business style.

This is an excellent moment to note that the EU is larger than the United States by over one hundred million people, but the US is still the larger market for CAD tools.

Right, and in many parts of the world and much of Europe, we are number one in BIM.

 

 

 

 

In general, in these markets as well as in Asia, Latin America, and Africa, we are in leading positions and continuing to see strong Archicad growth and happy customers. We are still owning and growing those markets.

Are you also capturing ex-Autocad users in the EU markets? I ask because I know that some EU countries are farther back in the BIM transformation.

Yes. Another quote I love is from William Gibbons: The future is already here—it’s just not evenly distributed.

That is true of BIM. It’s been true of BIM for a decade. And it will be true for another decade.

So, a good part of the industry is still stuck at 2D CAD and predominantly in Autocad in many European markets.

Many architects in many markets have been fundamentally not technologically oriented, but we see that changing as the benefits of, and demand for, digitalization become more widespread.

Or we can characterize it as not “tech-forward” or some other way of saying nicely that digital technologies don’t play such a significant role in their firms.

Yes. It sounds harsh to say this, especially with gray hair, but it’s generational. As this next generation or the younger people in those firms take over the business, they challenge the idea of having a drawing phase, in essence saying “I’ve already done the thinking in 3D, why do I have to do that?”, it doesn’t make any sense to them because they weren’t grounded in an analog process. They go straight to BIM. They come out of school and want to go directly to Archicad.

And those firms with tools and workflows oriented toward a drawing-centric process have the biggest change ahead of them – with both challenges and huge opportunities.

So besides generational 2D AutoCAD practices, there is also the issue of the Open Letter firms and movement—as an opportunity for Graphisoft.

We have contacted many firms who have recognized that there are more choices in the market than just one – and many of them find Graphisoft to better suit their needs.  We are committed to serving this market and ensuring that our present and future customers are listened to and that our strategy, roadmap, and business practices align with their needs.

In the pre-BIM days, the common refrain in the US market directed at a non-Autodesk using firm was, “why aren’t you using Autocad, the industry standard?” Such notions drive markets toward natural monopolies without substantive data (other than market share) to prove their economic efficiencies.

We all know firms thrive in all ways, including economically, using various BIM and CAD systems. So, for me, it boils down to the value of the “network effects” attached to the dominant firm versus the core innovations in the rival platform itself.

Ultimately, we are talking about deciding on your technology based on a generalized perception of following the crowd versus thinking about what you want to do and what technology best delivers on those objectives. Our approach is to make sure that we provide value and advantages to users of our software – regardless of what type of broader ecosystem they are working in.  We would say that the important network effects for firms come from the quality of their work and how well their ideas are shared and empowered. And our customers, old and new, appreciate this.

Part 3 Commentary

The discussion of network effects—a phenomenon whereby a product or service gains added value to the consumer when more people use it—is apt because no one product or platform can serve the industry’s total needs. Thus, market leaders’ tools become richer by having better connections and integrations with other tools and systems. In the next section, we touch on this vis-a-vis the Nemetschek Group.

However, it is important that the market’s leaders with their larger bases of connections, integrations, and add-ons—key aspects of network effects—don’t lose sight of the importance of core app innovation which always plays a significant role in performative workflow economics and the value creatives in architecture firms generate for their clients. Roberts’ final note above is driving at that last point.

 

Interview Part 4

As you grow and the Nemetschek Group companies grow, your Group ecosystem becomes more valuable, generating Group-based network effects and benefits. Can you tell me about any Nemetschek Group announcements coming in July?

We will share an update about what the Group is doing at the July event. We already recognize that there are layers of synergies in the Group. Today, Graphisoft does many things that add value with connections and integrations with Solibri, Bluebeam, SCIA, RISA, FRILO, dRofus, and Maxon. And there will be more.

Now, Graphisoft merging with DDS has opened up all sorts of opportunities for us over the next few years to help architects and engineers in new ways. And an important thing to state is that adding DDScad doesn’t take away from Archicad’s development centered on what architects want. We are not splitting up resources to focus on MEP, for example. This is all additive—we are integrating the DDScad engineers and growing our core teams.

Years ago, we wrote about a Group-wide CDE (common data environment) based on Bluebeam technology. And yet your own BIMcloud now has its own collaboration. What is your answer to the Procores and BIM 360s in the market?

Where are the opportunities in that space for you? Do you need to build something equivalent to that, or do you leverage Open BIM around integrations with as many other tools as possible?

I believe it is both. We remain fully supportive of users working with all manner of CDEs and have great synergies with Bluebeam, but we also see where we can add great value for our customers.

 

 

 

 

Our BIM cloud Software as a Service product is by far our fastest-growing product. We have had BIMcloud as a client-server for a while, but at the start of the pandemic, we accelerated the launch of our SaaS product when everybody started working from home. And that has grown like crazy!

The pandemic made clear whose solutions were ready for such shock events and which were not.

Yes, and people now realize the continuing benefits post-COVID. Sales of our BIMcloud SaaS far outstrip our LAN-based BIMcloud because the cloud gives you much more power and connectivity.

BIMcloud SaaS is a BIM server, a collaboration server, and even a document file server; plus, it manages markups and publishes to BIMx, and it does all of that really well. But BIMcloud today is aimed at serving the Archicad ecosystem, we are not looking for it to compete as an independent CDE.

One final question about the BIM transformation tied into the AEC industry’s productivity progress—or lack thereof—whereas you likely know real productive hourly gains in AEC are far behind other sectors, including AEC’s sector cousin Manufacturing. BIM alone hasn’t made a massive difference, and we have young (and old) architects protesting about long hours, low pay, and threatening unionization in the United States. [Editor’s note: To learn more about AECO industry economics and industrial data sign-up for our Xpresso newsletter.]

AEC spends very little of its revenues on information technologies—1.5 – 3.5 percent. I sometimes wonder if spending much more is required for a significant productivity change.

I fundamentally believe that is true, yet not because I am from a technology company. Technology is a force multiplier.

I go back to my architecture career. Back in school, the cool invention was pin-bar drafting on mylar. I have watched this industry’s progress through it all. For whatever reason—maybe because fees are tight, and the liability diminishes risk-taking—the industry has been very conservative about change. And it’s not just technology but change in the way of doing things.

 

 

 

 

CAD was an electronic pencil. You made lines like you made lines, just on a computer. When 3D modeling came along, it was similar to cutting up cardboard to make models. You worked with surfaces the same way; you made models with the same mindset as a physical model. And then came visualization. So instead of watercolors, it was the digitization of those kinds of images.

You are saying the analog processes are fundamentally still there.

Yes, underneath I think they are. And, of course, all these things have been good—they are advancements. But they don’t fundamentally change the paradigm about how we work. BIM does change the paradigm, but the shift is not complete.

BIM has made a fairly significant impact, yet it hasn’t diffused everywhere. Much of the overall process is still the same. And it’s distributed unevenly, as I noted early in the Gibson quote.

Technology—and you can think about Uber, for example—really adds value when it also changes how you do something. I think if the AEC industry really wants to take advantage of the technology—and likely more of it is needed—it has to reimagine and look at what is the workflow.

Part 4 and Final Commentary

It is imperative to emphasize a few things from the last part of this detailed interview. The Nemetschek Group’s growth is an integral part of extending the value of the Graphisoft ecosystem. That thinking would apply “group-wide,” no doubt. While Archicad does not match the network effect benefits of Autodesk Revit, its growing ecosystem helps to close the gap and find its advantages.

In closing, some things were said off-record that are very exciting and fill in the blanks from this article. Yes, we will soon learn more about chip support (e.g., Apple Silicon). But arguably, the most exciting aspects of the Archicad story are thematically centered on its ecosystem and extensibility via both OpenBIM and its new fast-time cycle collaboration technologies.

Much from my May conversation with Huw Roberts is not in this article—and it comes later. The essential final point is that the DDS and Graphisoft merger will likely mark a key inflection point in the Archicad story.