Exclusive: AutoCAD’s Fateful Return to the Mac

Five years ago this month Apple put out an unusual online seminar titled “Working with AutoCAD DWG on the Mac.” It was organized by Kenny Lee, then Apple US Segment Manager and featured John Mamuscia of Graphisoft, Fielder Hiss of SolidWorks, and John Williams of Nemetschek North America. The focus? Demonstrate how to work with Autodesk’s proprietary file format in the CAD world using tools other than tools by Autodesk.

Now why would that be important?

The short answer is because back then it appeared to the CAD world that Autodesk would never fulfill so many Mac users’ dreams of being able to work with native DWG files on the Mac. The long answer, of course, delves into the nitty gritty details of how Autodesk competitors–on and off the Mac–affectively must deal with a de facto file format standard for computer-aided design information. In the CAD world five years ago, and still very much today, the DWG file format still rules the roost.

For the last 10+ years, since Architosh has been a publication, Mac users in the CAD and 3D markets have been clamoring for a return of AutoCAD to the Mac. When Apple announced in the late 1990’s that they were going to develop a UNIX-based operating system with the famed Mac user-interface on top many had assumed that even long-time Windows-centric developers, rich with deep pockets due to market dominance, would spend the effort and the money on creating new native applications for Apple’s shiny new OS. Well, that did–and did not–happen. For industry design software giant Autodesk, it didn’t.

While industry newcomers like @Last Software with its now famous SketchUp (later acquired by Google) made early decisions to embrace Apple’s award-winning Mac OS X operating system, and important veterans in 3D verticals like Alias embraced the Mac with Maya, Autodesk decided to stay on the sidelines.

As we will learn in this detailed feature interview–exclusive not because Autodesk only wanted to talk to us (though they spoke to us very early) but because of the rare information contained within–the design software giant didn’t ignore the Mac platform because they hated Apple or were a puppet giant of Microsoft but rather because too many of their customers simply didn’t care for Steve Jobs’ beloved Mac platform.

This is important because contrary to some CAD industry observers, pundits and even analysts today–who believe Autodesk is gambling or speculating on Apple–the CAD giant has made the decision to support the Mac with AutoCAD precisely because of market facts and forces.

Fact. Apple’s Mac platform has been growing at about 33 percent year over year, a faster rate than the rest of the PC industry for 18 straight quarters. Fact. The Mac installed base is now 50 million users. Fact. Autodesk’s own customers are both interested in, investing in and asking for Mac software. Fact. Apple is the undisputed leader in new mobile platforms with its iOS in the iPhone and iPad. Force. Apple has become a technology superpower able to punch hard in the highest weight classes across most any market it wishes to turn its attention to.

With these types of market realities at play it makes perfect sense why a company with pockets as deep as Autodesk would return to the Mac. What doesn’t make sense is why some of their key competitors haven’t also come to the same conclusions. What follows below is a detailed discussion by Rob Maguire, AutoCAD for Mac Product Manager, about how Autodesk made this fateful decision to return to the Mac.

Interview

AFR: (Anthony Frausto-Robledo): You guys did a pretty good job keeping this secret for quite awhile. When and how did it start?

RM (Rob Maguire): We started a few years ago…slowly. We started with our existing customers.

AFR: How so?

RM: We began with a group of 60 customers who we knew were Mac people in nature.

AFR: Were these Autodesk customers or AutoCAD customers or both?

RM: They were people who were AutoCAD customers but they were also customers of other various Autodesk software.

AFR: How did you know they were Mac people?

RM: Autodesk has a something called CIP information. We could see from that information who was actually using AutoCAD on Mac hardware. We first targeted the Mac people and then grew out the beta program from there. It moved very quickly, reaching 5000 beta users.

AFR: Who were some of the significant beta users in your program? Can you say?

RM: We created a special Sledgehammer Gold Program, which consisted of just 26 special customers who had to use the beta in a full production setting. Each Gold Program beta user had an individual Autodesk employee devoted to that company. They had to call once a week for an hour to address the beta users’ issues.  A large AutoCAD firm called Styles and Wood were one of those special beta testers. They had extensive AutoCAD seats and were very interested in the Mac as a platform. We found some very interesting Mac enthusiasts among our AutoCAD customers. Some people went out and bought brand new Macs just to run the beta on.

AFR: Some people are intense critics of you bringing AutoCAD to the Mac. They see no logic behind the move. What do you say to those who say there is no market for AutoCAD on the Mac?

RM: Well, very credible third party analysts are telling us the market for CAD on the Mac is north of $100 million per year. Secondly, the growth rate of the Apple Mac platform is itself a reason. With 33 percent year over year growth [on the Mac] it is implicit for us to be in the markets where the growth is.

AFR: You are right the Mac has grown 33 percent year over year almost every quarter for a few years now. We know from our large BIM study published this year that so strong is the interest in the Mac that customers are picking up new Apple hardware and leaving behind old programs for new ones native on the platform. And there are some very good choices for them to go to. Do you know where your AutoCAD defectors have been going?

RM: Sure, we know in general they are going to competition like Vectorworks and ArchiCAD and to Rhino and others places–even NX. A lot of customers now are making their OS platform their first choice, prior to their CAD platform. There is an increasing industrial design segment on the Mac now. There has always been a good size niche segment in architecture but we see growth in segments like product and industrial design.

AFR: Besides architecture and industrial design, what other areas do you see as strong market segments for your new AutoCAD for Mac software?

RM: People know AutoCAD is strong in AEC and manufacturing. But what they may not know is that we have a very strong market share in “other business segments” that require CAD. For example, take the ornamental iron business. There is a 3000.USD add-on software program for AutoCAD for just that. We have add-on software programs that are incredible at what they do in very niche areas, like QuiltCAD for example, or accident reconstruction or ship and naval architecture. There is a whole host of industries and we are very strong in all those industries.

AFR: AutoCAD has of course become a linga franca of the CAD world through the DWG file format. I would expect you to be strong in many “other business” segments. But in AEC the world has shifted to BIM and your company is pushing BIM with Revit–not AutoCAD.

RM: Yes, but even in a BIM-centric workflow AutoCAD is important. We ship AutoCAD in every Revit box.

AFR: How are third-parties look at this?

RM: We started recruiting them last December. We announced something under NDA then. We got interest from 10-13 partners right away. It was a tough sell at that point. We got about five of them to start writing code. We then got some good feature and responses on the APIs.

AFR: Why so small out of thousands of third-party apps?

RM: Well, AutoCAD for Mac needs to establish itself first. We then see many apps coming soon after.

AFR: So what does Autodesk have planned to get AutoCAD for Mac established more? What efforts will you be putting into this initiative?

RM: We will be running a bunch of AutoCAD for Mac classes on migrating to Mac for developers. Apple will be a partner in those events. Those classes will offer several levels of support for Mac, for example helping developers to decide and implement if they want to do a Mac-native UI (user-interface) or not.

AFR: So are some key big third-party guys making support for the Mac?

RM: Well, we can’t announce everyone at this point but some include Hydrotec, who do an add-on for sprinkler analysis and design. Savoye is another major developer.

AFR: Let’s talk about AutoCAD for the Mac in more detail. It has an all native Mac UI (user-interface). We think this is a major deal and a good call on your part. What are some of the unique features of the UI that you guys are proud of?

RM: We are proud of our general approach to staying true to the Mac but also staying true to AutoCAD. We also did things that acknowledge that Mac people are indeed different in the way they approach technology. On AutoCAD for Windows, for example, you can customize pretty much anything you want–and many of our customers will totally tinker and do that. You can completely change the UI. But Mac users seem much less interested in doing that. So we gave them far less options with the UI. They have two color tones to choose from [in the UI] compared to the unlimited approach on Windows.

AFR: Yes, but are there things that are unique and special? I guess what I am getting at is are there things you learned about doing a Mac native UI that worth carrying over to the Windows version, simply because they are great UI things to do?

RM: There are certainly things that are going to come through. We put a lot more emphasis on design and visual appeal than anything we ever did before by the AutoCAD team. Some of that will come over. We are going to implement the AutoCAD WS integration at the same level as the Mac version into the PC version. Right now it’s only available as a plugin.

AFR: Why did you not try to emulate the Ribbon interface on the Mac version?

RM: We needed to respond to how Macs are different, with their wider format screens for example. There was some kind of need for some of that on the Mac but it had to reflect how Mac applications typically work. Our tool and inspector and settings palettes leave the appropriate proportioned main work window given the Macs’s widescreen format.

We get a lot of feedback from customers about migration [to Macs] and they are looking to make things familiar, looking to customize the UI elements to assist in that. With the Mac version of AutoCAD again we made the tool palettes vertical because Macs have wide screens and that is how you see pro apps on the Mac; users are accustomed to Adobe programs and programs like Aperture and they work that way.

AFR: What kind of alignment and commonality are you guys seeking in the PC and Mac versions of AutoCAD going forward?

RM: The closer we make the code bases under the hood the better for both sets of AutoCAD users.

AFR: I believe that you guys have your own modeling kernel code base now. So the question of support for the Mac naturally emerged with me. What is the kernel in AutoCAD for the Mac?

RM: We licensed Spatial’s ACIS kernel a few years ago. When Dassault aquired Spatial that forked us in terms of the kernel we had been using. We decided to license it and develop the ASM component (Autodesk Shape Manager). So ASM is the geometry kernel in AutoCAD for the Mac.

AFR: That would mean that your primary kernel is fully Mac ready. That removes a significant barrier in crossing over some of your staple products to the Mac. What other products use Shape Manager?

RM: Autodesk 3d Studio Max for sure. Not sure about the Alias stuff.

AFR: Speaking of which, when Autodesk acquired Alias you acquired Maya and lots of superb Alias-Wavefront applications and technologies. Maya was already on the Mac and so you acquired Mac expertise at the highest level of 3D development. How did Autodesk tap that expertise for AutoCAD for the Mac?

RM: We did borrow stuff from the Maya team. Like the SubDivision surface modeling code and some other things. Also, some of the stuff from Alias Studio 2011 came over as well. Alias had beat us to the Mac so we had the raw saw code available.

AFR: And what about rendering technology? What is the rendering engine in AutoCAD for the Mac…is it the same as the Windows version?

RM: It’s mental ray.

AFR: Really. That’s very interesting because I think that may the first implementation of mental ray–which is a very highly regarding renderer–on the Mac platform. I can think of only one other developer who might have already brought mental ray to the Mac.

Let’s shift gears a bit and talk about what Autodesk is going to be doing in terms of evangelizing and promoting AutoCAD for the Mac. What are you doing?

RM: At the upcoming AutoCAD University we will be offering classes for both third-party developers and for end users on AutoCAD for the Mac. Some of these classes will be geared for existing Mac CAD customers to help them get accustomed to the new AutoCAD for the Mac. And for existing Windows AutoCAD users we will have a Mac lounge and lab setup for them.

AFR: And besides your current distribution channel how else will one be able to get a copy of the new AutoCAD for Mac?

RM: We are organizing through our VARs and syncing up VARs (value-added resellers) with the Apple Stores. We will be doing this on an “on demand” basis with the Apple Stores.

AFR: Are you providing special training for the Mac version?

RM: Good question. Yes, we will about 50 different videos on the app in action to get people up to speed. This will be available on AutoCAD Exchange online. There are also 6-8 training videos inside the application. We are offering considerably more training than we offer for Windows.

AFR: Why is that?

RM: We have found that Mac customers are considerably more self-serving.

AFR: Let’s talk a bit about your expectations. Obviously Autodesk has put in a lot of good effort on this first release. There is a lot of thoughtfulness for what makes Mac users different…and I think it shows. But this is version one.

RM: First and foremost this product has to stand by itself. We are still validating quite a bit of that. Vectorworks, ArchiCAD and Rhino are already out in the market. I think there will be a lot of side-by-side product buying. We are offering a free trial because it’s a big new thing for us and we are excited about it.

AFR: And where will it be available? Are there plans for other languages?

RM: It will be in English only for now and be available in the US and parts of Europe.

AFR: Rob thanks for this great interview. Let me just ask one more question and Noah may want to chip in on this too. AutoCAD on the Mac has been coveted for a very very long time. This is a big deal. How is this changing Autodesk? What does this mean for Autodesk and Apple relations?

Noah Cole (NC): I’ll answer this one. First of all it is important to note that we have had a relationship with Apple for quite some time, with Maya and Alias, et cetera. We look at this as a sign of increased commitment to Apple. This is the first time in a long time we have had a dedicated pure CAD product for the Mac. We did quite a bit of work on this.

If you look around Autodesk today you will see a lot of people using Macs. And you will see a lot of people using iPhones. That is a sign of how much things have changed. We have had over 2 million downloads of Autodesk SketchBook for the iPad.

AFR: Wow, those are amazing numbers.

NC: We are very pleased. The day the Apple iPad came out our CEO Carl Bass went out and bought two iPads, one for his assistant and one for himself to take home and play with. He was very excited about it. The one he took home quickly become coveted by those in his house.

AFR: Thanks Rob and Noah for talking to me about AutoCAD on the Mac. This was a very interesting discussion.

NC and RM: Thank you and you are welcome.